Can NASA remain nonpartisan when basic spaceflight truths are shredded?

Zeppos

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Boy, I wish either Butch or Suni had the nerve to have a press conference once they've recovered, and in no uncertain terms refute Trump's lies, and in fact call him a liar. Somebody in the public sphere has to at some point. Bernie Sanders has more than once called him a pathological liar, but he seems to be the only one.
That would just feed them. They thrive on the conflict. The battle would also not be fair. They'll just ly.
Probably something like this. "These astronauts got there costing billions of dollars. We rescue them and do you think they said thank you?"
 
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JoHBE

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NASA is something.

Sometthing is part of everything.

Everything will be destroyed.

Ergo, NASA (as n, what it was supposed to be).will be destroyed.

Simple as that.

From now on, NASA's two purposes are: lining Elon's pockets, and Glorifying the Trump Administration.

Maybe also launching Russian intel sats, soon.
 
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Kergonath

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I don’t understand why the lies aren’t more clearly called out across media. Half the time they’re just… repeated. At least there’s Ars.
Yes. It’s appalling to see mainstream media go with the "stranded" narrative, even in sleazy quotes. Even in newspapers that ought to know better and that don’t have any reason to court Trump.
 
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JoHBE

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Boy, I wish either Butch or Suni had the nerve to have a press conference once they've recovered, and in no uncertain terms refute Trump's lies, and in fact call him a liar. Somebody in the public sphere has to at some point. Bernie Sanders has more than once called him a pathological liar, but he seems to be the only one.
They were just kept in the dark about the TRUE reasons. Easy to dismiss their opinion. Of course, Trump will instead let them burn at the stake for being disloyal, instead (because he can't help it), but there's no indication that would put a dent in his approval ratings...
 
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GaryWiseman

Smack-Fu Master, in training
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Another great article. May I respectfully mention that rampant politics is not unknown in NASA? Deke Slayton worked tirelessly to make the astronaut corps into a white, male conservative group. Some have opined it came from jealousy of John Glenn.
There are many examples, but the simplest is to notice mistakes from his astronauts weren’t mentioned for decades, and any others mistakes were leaked.
 
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JoHBE

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Thanks for not being roundabout about this and calling things what they are.

It’s a disgrace. And pretending it is all part of normal will only help make it part of normal.
As far as (their) lies go, this one barely registers on the radar.Truth on your side of the Atlantic is already on life support, with Trump busy unplugging all the cables, and everyone else just standing by.
 
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JoHBE

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"Let's bring them down NOW, sir," she said, with tears in her eyes. This strong woman, the strongest, with tears in her eyes, so touched that I remembered the astronauts that everyone else forgot. In fact, I came up with the word "remembered." Nobody ever used that word before.

"...that failed group of incompetents." EVERY accusation is a confession.
What I'm wondering is... Do Americans actually still realise that just about - every - single - tweet (or whatever it's called on the platform of choice) this evil clown excretes, would almost certainly be the end of him in every civilized country around the world? Because they so blatantly reveal and illustrate that he lacks EVERY trait that is necessary to be a leader? Even just by the unfathomable simplism of the discourse, completely stripped of even the faintest trace of nuance.
 
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Hydrargyrum

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By an incredible coincidence, the official government newspaper of the USSR was called "Pravda", a Russian word meaning "Truth".

I understand that history repeats itself, but it would be nice if it could change up some of the details once in a while.

They also had another publication called "Isvestia", which translates as "News".

Leading to the Soviet joke about there being "no news in Truth, and no truth in News".
 
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Coolie

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I assume the reason this isn't being covered in this article is that Ars has already covered it, exhaustively.

But, why not cover it one more time. Let's start with why Dragon suits weren't sent up earlier.

There are always exactly as many seats available to go back to Earth, as there are astronauts at the ISS. When Butch and Suni went up on Starliner, their ride down was also Starliner. Those were the seats to carry them, and they had suits that were designed to keep them safe and comfortable in Starliner. The connections between Starliner suits and their spacecraft is not compatible with the one between Dragon suits and the spacecraft. You can't plug a Dragon suit into a Starliner, or vice versa. There was no reason for them to carry up Dragon suits. And Boeing probably would have taken umbrage if they had.

Eventually (we'll get to that), the decision was made to send Starliner back empty and have Butch and Suni return with Crew-9 (which they did today). But there was a gap between Starliner leaving and the Crew-9 Dragon arriving, during which time, in an emergency (which thankfully didn't happen), they would have had to return in the Crew-8 Dragon.

So why not send them Dragon suits between when the decision to not use Starliner was made, and when the next cargo shipment went up, just in case? Well, they did already have a spare up there (which, I think, Suni ended up using), but, yes, they absolutely could have sent one up for Butch in the next cargo mission, to have available in case of an emergency Crew-8 return. Why didn't they? Because those suits wouldn't have done them any good in that emergency scenario.

The suits serve two purposes: to keep the astronauts cool during re-entry (it's my understanding that the cabin doesn't get dangerously hot outside of the suits, but it does get uncomfortable enough that they pump chilled air into the suits to keep the astronauts cool), and to maintain pressure if there's a decompression event on the way to or from the ISS. For either of those purposes, they need to be hooked up to a source of air, and Dragon only has four of those hookups: one per seat.

If Suni and Butch had to ride down with Crew-8, the suits wouldn't have helped, because there was nothing available to hook them up to in order to perform their functions. Even had there been suits up there and an emergency forced them to return home before Crew-9 arrived, they probably would have ridden down in their shirt sleeves, and endured the uncomfortably hot cabin temperatures on re-entry.

So Butch's suit was sent up when it would be useful: when the Dragon went up with two empty seats for them to return in, and to plug those suits into.

Luckily for everyone, there wasn't an emergency requiring the six astronauts to evacuate on the Crew-8 Dragon, nor a decompression event on Crew-8's ride downhill.

----
As for what kept Butch and Suni there? Okay, let's start from the beginning. Strap in; this is quite the ride.

1. 2024-06-05 Butch and Suni get launched on Starliner. Planned return date: c. 2024-06-13.
2. 2024-06-06 Starliner arrives at the ISS and suffers several propulsion failures. They are eventually able to resolve enough of these to dock safely. Planned return date: c. 2024-06-14.
3. 2024-06-12 NASA and Boeing are not able to resolve the propulsion issues. Planned return date: c. 2024-06-18.
4. 2024-06-14 (?) NASA decides they need to test the thrusters before they return. Planned return date: c. 2024-06-21
5. 2024-06-18 Tests complete; they decide they need to study the data some more. Planned return date: c. 2024-06-25.
6. 2024-06-21 NASA gives up on this being a quick and easy problem to fix. Planned return date: 2024-07-??
7. 2024-06-28 Tests are going to take a couple of weeks, but Starliner is safe to return on in an emergency. Planned return date: 2024-07-late.
8. 2024-07-10 NASA is still planning on bringing Butch and Suni back on Starliner. Planned return date: c. 2024-07-31.
9. 2024-07-26 NASA's starting to concede that they're considering bringing them back on Dragon, but Starliner is still the plan. Planned return date: 2024-08-??.
10. 2024-08-01 NASA have almost cracked, but Starliner is still the plan. Planned return date: ???
11. 2024-08-06 Crew-9 (the mission that just landed with Butch and Suni) gets delayed from August to September, because Starliner isn't configured to fly home without a crew. Planned return date: c. 2024-09-05
12. 2024-08-24 NASA gives up on Starliner: they're coming home with the next Dragon crew rotation, arriving in September. Planned return date (for Butch and Suni): 2025-02-??
13: 2024-09-07 Starliner flies home without Butch and Suni. Planned return date (for Butch and Suni): still 2025-02-??
14. 2024-09-28 Crew-9 launches with two empty seats for Butch and Suni to return on. Planned return date: still 2025-02-??.
15. 2024-12-18 The new Dragon capsule that Crew-10 was supposed to launch on is taking longer than expected to get ready, so Crew-9 (including Butch and Suni) will be staying until it's completed. Planned return date: 2025-04-??
16. 2025-02-06 Nope, they're not waiting for the new Dragon to be ready to launch Crew-10. Planned return date: c. 2025-03-19.
17. Actual return date: 2025-03-18

(And those aren't even all of the Starliner stories on Ars; I mostly just kept ones where the return date actually got pushed back)

In summary:

  • The biggest delay was due to "cannot return on Starliner." Once that decision is taken into account, we can, with hindsight, say that they were always going to return with Crew-9, in early 2025. NASA probably could have done the normal four-person crew rotation, and then bought another Dragon mission from SpaceX to bring Butch and Suni back early, but why would they spend hundreds of millions of dollars to retrieve astronauts who, by all accounts, are perfectly happy to spend more time in space?
  • There were a whole bunch of delays to Starliner's return date while NASA and Boeing tried to fix the issue to a point that they believed they could bring Butch and Suni home on it, but, as that failed and they didn't end up returning on Starliner, that only really delayed their return by delaying the launch of Crew-9 by a month. And even then, I think February might have been Crew-9's originally scheduled return date: August to February is six months, and that's how long a rotation usually is.
  • Finally, SpaceX couldn't finish the Crew-10 capsule on time, so that mission's launch (and thus Crew-9's return) got pushed back to when the new capsule would be ready (late March / early April), and then pushed forward to mid March when they decided not to use a new capsule after all.
Thank you for this, especially for compiling this timeline — it gives a very clear, comprehensive view of what and when decisions were made.

One thing which really bears repeating is that Wilmore and Williams were never “stranded”… There were always at least one other option for them — together with all other ISS residents — to come home in case of an emergency:
  • Starliner, before it returned, even if there was a bit of uncertainty due to the issues seen when going up
  • Crew-8, was up there when Starliner left and it returned after Crew-9 got to the ISS, ; Crew-8 had two emergency seats put in in case evacuation was necessary
  • Crew-9, from September onwards
  • Russia’s Soyuz, also docked to the ISS if all else failed.

(It is interesting / unfortunate that a lot of reporting barely mentions, if at all, the fact that NASA astronaut Nick Hague and Cosmonaut Aleksandr Gorbunov — who took Crew-9 up — returned with Wilmore and Williams.)
 
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passivesmoking

Ars Tribunus Angusticlavius
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The "All headlines that are questions can be answered with no" rule applies here.

Being non-partisan on any topic at all is no longer an option, because the fuckers behind project 2025 have made EVERYTHING political.

What car you drive is political

What medical treatments you give your kids is political

What pet your own is political.

Where you shop is political.

If you're not political today you're effectively siding with the current regime, which is political.
If you're not political, you're screwed.
 
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Purpleivan

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I’m no fan of Musk and his sidekick Trump, but we should stick to the facts. So thanks for that information.
But even if the uniform is not fake, his wearing of it in a public setting, talking about matters related to astronautics is fakery. It's one thing for it to sit in a closest at home, maybe pulled out once in a while for him to play act at being an astronaut in his kitchen, with a goldfish bowl on his head, it's another to for him to wear it on national TV.

If this was a US marine corp uniform that had been presented to him as a gift and he wore it years later on TV, talking about military matters, he'd rightly be accused of "stolen valour".
 
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sixstringedthing

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Oh do be quiet.

Beyond the ridiculous notion that we should abide by what either The Register or The Inquirer says, Hannibal is a blowhard who spends his days posting about AI on X, and Caesar is still here, every single day.
In defense of the person to whom you're replying, they're referring to Betteridge's Law. Which is a fair point to make, depending on how you feel about the matter.

Could have done a better job of referencing it though, I literally just DDG'd "headlines that end with a question" and got the wiki article as the top result. :)

Edit to add: in case my tone is unclear, I'd very much come down on the side of "Mr Berger was deliberately asking an open-ended question via the headline" (indeed, the entire point of the article was to spark discussion via the headline and the following text). So Betteridge's Law doesn't really apply here anyway.
 
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OrvGull

Ars Legatus Legionis
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The Democrats are as much to blame for allowing this circus to happen unopposed.
Many of them do call it out, but you don't hear about it because the media isn't interested in covering it. The only way you see it is if you follow their social media feeds or press releases.

Most media outlets are desperate to keep their access to Trump and not risk having their broadcast licenses pulled.
 
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I remember the criticism of NASA leading up to the launch of Challenger. It was harsh. I also remember watching the launch on NASA TV and what happened. NASA had its problems and needed to do better, but a big part of it was social pressure on the agency. I really hope we don't have to go through that again. When space wants to teach you a lesson, you don't necessarily survive it.
I was in second grade and we were watching it on TV at school. I still tear up when I remember it. I've never been much interested in the space program, and now I wonder if that has something to do with it.
 
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Was anyone else disgusted by seeing Musk wear a fake astronaut mission suit while being interviewed on Fox about DOGE?

It’s bad enough when he does it at SpaceX, but doing it while he’s on his political hobbyhorse is flat out cosplay.

View attachment 105421
"I asked Elon Musk to go up and get the abandoned Astronauts" - he personally flew up there in a jet pack and carried them home in his arms - if that doesn't earn him the right to wear an astronaut suit nothing does! /s grumble grumble
 
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knope

Wise, Aged Ars Veteran
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It can't, for a very simple reason I've been talking about for years now - it's not because NASA cannot be nonpartisan - it's because what the US and several other nations allowed to be considered a political party was wrong, is wrong, and will keep being wrong forever, as proven by history, as proven by present circumstances and as it'll be proven by future consequences.

You cannot have a "political party" in a democratic system that systematically uses blatant open lies, falsehood, hatred, smearing campaigns, manipulative tactics that not only resembles but are actual scams, ignorance, and break every single rule that keeps balance in power, and sustains democratic rule, and still have a democracy. The fact is, there already isn't a democracy in the US. It was dysfunctional before Trump, now it's just over.

So yeah, a governmental agency cannot remain nonpartisan in a system that has no true political parties, turning it into a proto or de facto dictatorship. As no one else should. It just surprises me how many people cannot see the obvious, including those on the opposite side. A sports match where one team or both teams respect no rules is just a brawl. It's not a sport, it's just chaos. And instead of a course correction, what I'm seeing everyday in news is just encouragement for it to keep going this way - doesn't matter which side you are. The time to over analyze and use cases as bad examples is over already, every single minute this charade is prolonged translates into direct losses for democracy as a concept.

I'm not an US citizen, not that this is only happening in the US, but if politics will continue being this absolute sh*tshow that it current is worldwide, it deserves no respect, and no attention. I'm just finding better things to do with my life, and then I'll deal with the consequences this absolute crapfest ends up with when it reaches me. Ain't worth wasting any time with something that has this little respect for itself. Not even sure if I should've wasted my time to make the comment, but there you go. Recommendation I'd give people? Probably stop wasting time with politics discussions, and do what you can to prepare yourself for the worst.
"Nice try Diddy" - now's not the time to 'both sides' the issue, you're glazing over exactly what's happened here. Since Trump started the birther lie; since McConnell denied the supreme Court pick to Obama, yada yada etc etc. The GOP showed their hand back in the Reagan administration, they showed their hand in the Nixon era: the GOP is a white supremacist organization, that serves only the wealthiest 10%.
 
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Tfargo04

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"The Gulf of America" is actually a large area of vacuous, impenetrable space located between Trump's ears. The vacuum is so strong, it attracts the like minded. When stood shoulder to shoulder a Bernoulli like effect will be experienced (even lower pressure at a higher speed), though paradoxically, there is no exchange of medium.
 
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SpaceHamster

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That would just feed them. They thrive on the conflict. The battle would also not be fair. They'll just ly.
Probably something like this. "These astronauts got there costing billions of dollars. We rescue them and do you think they said thank you?"
And they didn't even wear suits!
 
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